Men’s Mental & Physical Health Matters: Breaking the Silence

For Men’s Mental Health Month, our latest edition of ConnectForHealth opens up the conversation men too often avoid.

Men’s health is not just physical fitness, routine check-ups, or pushing through pressure. It is also sleep, stress, loneliness, financial worry, job security, fatherhood, relationships, community and the ability to say, honestly, when things are not okay.

In this episode, Scott Armstrong and Maissa Al Khafajy are joined by Chris Bradwell, founder of British Dads Dubai, and Chris Miller, founder of In-Cre-Mental, to explore what men are really carrying beneath the surface.

Chris Bradwell shares what he is seeing inside one of the UAE’s largest dad communities, from men asking privately for support to the importance of building spaces where fathers can talk, connect and feel less alone.

Chris Miller brings the lens of an executive coach, mental health first aid instructor and former senior leader, exploring why high-performing men often keep functioning while quietly moving into survival mode.

This is a practical, honest conversation about breaking silence before pressure becomes crisis.

Topics include:

• Why men often say “I’m fine” when they are not
• Job security, financial worries, family pressure and the mental load men carry
• Why loneliness is not just emotional, but a real health issue
• How distress can show up as anger, withdrawal, overthinking or irritability
• Why men often wait too long before asking for help
• The role of community, dads’ groups and side-by-side conversations
• How physical health, stress, sleep and mental health are connected
• Why sustainable progress matters more than dramatic change
• How partners, friends and colleagues can spot when someone is struggling
• Why taking the first step deserves to be celebrated

If you are a man who feels like you are carrying too much, a partner trying to understand what is going on beneath the silence, or a leader who wants to support men better at work, this episode is for you.

Watch or listen now, and please share it with someone who might need the reminder: silence is not strength, and you do not have to struggle alone.

Chapter list

00:00 Welcome to ConnectForHealth and Men’s Mental Health Month
02:17 Meet Chris Bradwell and Chris Miller
02:42 What dads are really asking for inside British Dads Dubai
04:37 Loneliness, uncertainty, safety and the search for control
09:11 Maissa on boys, young men and learning to open up
15:24 “I’m fine”: what men often mean when they say it
19:23 How stress and depression can show up differently in men
27:06 Why British Dads Dubai was built, and why community matters
29:35 Poll: the biggest pressure points for men right now
51:21 Physical health, stress, movement and realistic routines
59:51 Celebrate the courage to take the first step

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Welcome back to Connect for Health, the live webinar and podcast series brought to you by Signa Healthcare Middle Eastern Africa with a little bit of support from Mental. I, as always, I'm Scott Armstrong, I think, uh, the founder of Mental, a platform that tries to tackle the stigma of mental health. And as always, I'm joined by my fabulous co-host, Mesa Al Kafaji, the head of strategic affairs and government communications at Signa Healthcare. Nice to see you back again. Well, thank you, Scott. Thank you for being here today. Now, if you don't know, June is men's mental health month. And the statistics are quite alarming when we look at men's mental health. There is a massive stigma, and men are not leaning in and looking after their own mental health. And actually, we recently did, and if you saw the last episode, which it's very well worth checking out, we were talking about the Cigna Healthcare uh UE Pulse survey, and we saw that men were struggling with issues such as job security, financial worries, and also loneliness. So today I'm delighted that we're going to be diving in to men's mental health. Now, if you're joining us live, remember you can get involved in the conversation. Please post your questions in the chat box. Particularly if you want to remain anonymous, just write a non at the start and I'll make sure that we don't read out your name. And I also just want to say that today's conversation is about lived experience. It's not clinical advice. So if you are struggling, please reach out and seek professional help. I've been it, I've done it, and it is absolutely fabulous. It's one of the best things I've ever done. So if you are struggling, know that you're not alone. But today I'm delighted to be joined by two guests who have their own lived experience and are also out in the community seeing what's happened. My first guest, Mr. Chris Bradwell. You might know him, he's the founder of British Dads Dubai, particularly on Facebook. It started as a simple idea that dads deserved a community too, and I love this. And it's kind of now grown up into a network of thousands of members. My second guest today, Mr. Chris Miller, who is the founder and he's an ICF accredited executive coach, an LLP practitioner, and a mental health first aider. And he's the founder of Incremental, not mental, we're spelled differently as well. Um, so guys, both thank you for joining us today. This is a really important conversation, particularly it being June, and it should be men's mental health, it should be everybody's mental health month all year round. Um, Chris, I kind of want to start with you though, because obviously you're connected to thousands of men, thousands of dads as well, um, out in the community. We see the Signa Healthcare pool survey, we're saying, look, we're struggling with loneliness, we're struggling with finances, we're worried about job security, and obviously it's been a tense time for everybody the last two to three months. But what are you actually seeing in the community? Are dads reaching out to you for help?

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah, I mean, we we've had quite a few guys, couldn't they? You know, we we used to do a lot of anonymous posts on the group, which we've stopped because for safety reasons, we don't want to have them on there. So I'm having a lot of guys message me personally asking for help. Yeah, we've seen a lot more questions, people asking where I can get help for you know to do with my mental health. So people are slowly coming out of their shells and starting to realise that they can actually ask for help. So we've had you know lots of different questions um to do with mental health. Obviously, we've got quite a few guys on the group that do deal in mental health as well. So that's also helps to have somebody I can direct, uh signpost people to as well. So it's good.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Have you seen the conversation or have you seen the reach out actually increasing? I don't know, over the years or over the last year, or you know, uh are men becoming more willing to reach out and actually act.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I think some some are. Some we mean we do we do host like we have a breakfast once a month, which I did I think it's we're nearly at three years we're doing that. It's just a very casual breakfast we do every first Tuesday of the month. Just a very casual place for people to come, have breakfast, sit down, talk if you want to, talk about business, talk about your family, talk about whatever you want. And it's a very casual breakfast. And we've also done like time, uh, men's time to talk, zoom chats, which we've done quite a while, which we've stopped at the minute because the people that were doing it are busy within themselves, so we haven't had much time, which is something I want to try and get back to doing.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

So when you're having this conversation, I know Chris, you've been involved in those conversations or those times to talk. What are the kind of common issues that are kind of coming through? Does it gel with what we were saying in that pool survey? What are the what are the concerns or what are the things that you see that dads, men, not just dads obviously, but young men as well, which is really, really important right now. We've seen the statistics around young men's mental health as well as the kind of our age brackets, really, really alarming. But what are you seeing that people are struggling with?

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Yeah, look, I mean, thank you for inviting me on. Um, I think as you say, it's a really important topic. Uh, and maybe because you know, the way that men deal with problems um is is quite often obscured. I think, you know, certainly what we saw when we were doing men's time to talk um was you know, loneliness is a big one, you know, that sense of needing a community, especially when you're expats and you're away from you know where you grew up, where your friends might be and family. I think, you know, certainly over the last few months we've seen you know massive uh rise in that feeling of uncertainty, you know, and and lack of a perceived lack of control um around you know your your own safety, the safety of those that you love, the safety for your work environment, and all of these things then you know interconnect with each other. And I think um, you know, it is a really uncertain time, um, you know, and there's no getting away from that. So it's you know, what then is is the solution? Um, so it's you know, I think it's helping people to understand, you know, uncertainty is a part of life, you know, it's an important part of life, right? So, you know, when you when you are faced with uncertainty, what can you do about it?

SPEAKER_02 6:12

I think it's I remember a Tom Hanks video, which was like he was sat around the table with Leonardo DiCaprio, with Keanu, as you remember, yeah, and Robert De Niro, and he was saying, you know, that the the main phrase is this too shall pass. And he was like, you know, if things are is that what that's what I'm saying, yeah. And it's like, you know, if things are bad, you're struggling, things aren't going your way, this too shall pass. Think you've got it all sorted, think you're comfortable, this too shall pass. You know, it's that part of the fact that actually there's not, you know, life isn't one destination that everything will be fine, but actually, you know, we just got to kind of deal with this day to day.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

I mean, one of the big things I I certainly um you know try to encourage with the people that I talk to and the the you know some of the workshops that I do is this sense of you know you you do have choices all the time, right? And we we have this paradox within our within our brains where we are desperate for safety, like that's what our brains want is for us to be safe. So that safety is about everything being the same, but we only grow when we are challenged, and so we are in this constant kind of balance battle, whatever you want to call it, of I want safety, but I grow when I, you know, when I'm challenged. And actually, challenge is can be really exciting, you know, a great opportunity. But a lot of the time, you know, it it we perceive it as a challenge, uh, you know, something to be scared of. Um, so I think, you know, that it's it, you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, like that's why I got it in engraved into my own skin, is it's like, you know, and I need reminding. You know, when times are bad, times have been bad before and then they've been good. Yeah. When times have been good, they've been good before and they've been they'll be bad.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Uh Chris there is talking about safety. I just want to remind you that this conversation is a safe space. You can reach in, please ask questions, please ask the guys, or even share your experiences or observations. We are going to be asking some polls later, so we want you to get involved and vote in them. If you are watching up on YouTube or listening on the podcast on catch up, you won't be able to get involved in that interactivity. But if you want to be with us live in the room next time, reach out to Signa Healthcare for details of membership. And just to kind of reinforce the fact this is a safe conversation, I have struggled with general anxiety disorder. I take antidepressants, I've struggled with child trauma linked to childhood abuse, and I also was diagnosed last year with ADHD and uh um OCD. So uh we've all got lived experiences in in this conversation. So if you do want to share, um, the it's a judgment-free space. So please I encourage you to do, particularly if you've got questions. Um, Mesa, I mean, we were talking about men of different ages. I mean, obviously, you're a mother of boys.

SPEAKER_05 9:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Um, what you know, from from a mother's perspective, what are you seeing and what are the kind of things they're sharing with you? Or what do you worry about when you see them?

SPEAKER_05 9:13

With with regards to um the age of which my boy is.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Your boys, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:19

They're always your boys. It's it's yeah, it's it's been quite challenging because I think they're still at that stage where I mean, my 18-year-old had basically said that amongst the group, amongst the boys, the this, you know, kind of like um the the group setting that they're in, they're they're very open about talking about issues, um, whether it is challenges within the family dynamic, whether it's, you know, personal issues, um, whether it's just within themselves, how they're feeling. Um but there doesn't seem to be, I mean, that's the first step, right? The fact that you can at least express and you can vocalize it. But then I think to myself, but then that's still kind of like within an echo chamber. You don't really have that external perspective, not many of them, or at least I've had that conversation with my son about should he seek or want um external, um, you know, kind of like help, at least to give him the tools to help manage certain things in life that I was all for it. And there came a point where he did say, Yeah, I think I I think I'd be happy talking to someone. And then sure enough, when things got slightly better, he didn't want to go down that route. Now, with older like age groups, I've realized that there seems to be a little bit more awareness. So I've been speaking to a few, um, just perchance people that I've had conversations with um in a community setting, and they're in their mid-20s, late 20s, maybe sometimes dads themselves or to be new dads, um, like early 30s, and they're very much aware of the fact that they are going through something, whatever it could be, at whatever stage that they're in in their lives, and that they have chosen to speak to somebody about it. So that awareness is is slowly, you know, kind of like being something, it's not as common as I would like it to be, but they're more forthcoming. So I actually wanted to ask when you said the workshops that you have hosted, um, how do people know about the workshops? What are the demographics? What are they like? Are they kind of quite diverse? Are they people who are say in senior leadership positions? What what what can you say about and over the course of the years as well? Has that kind of like evolved? Does that look slightly different?

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah, yeah, certainly it does. Um I mean, predominantly in terms of workshops, it's more corporate um side of things. So it's looking at um, as you say, I think equipping people with with the skills to, you know, that's the thing for me. I like I don't want to coach somebody for the rest of their life. I want to coach somebody to be able to, you know, to to recognize fish. Exactly. Teach them how to fish.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Um and I so so in terms of the the workshops, I I focus very, you know, the very much sort of softer side of skills. You know, the whole point of the the name of my business is incremental, it's small steps, it's you know, I'm a simple person, I like simple things, you know, simple doesn't always equate to easy, but I I do believe that if we boil down you know what we're challenged with, you can get to what's my first step, what can I do today to make it even a tiny bit better, and you know, with some momentum, and you know, I mean, I same as as Scott, same as Chris, you know, I've had my own challenges. I remember um going to see a um uh therapist, and it took me forever to go to see the therapist because I thought I'm a you know, I'm a thinker. Yeah, so I'd I thought through my problems, I'd seen them from every different angle. What's somebody else gonna do for me? But what I didn't realize was that you know, I'd created this, you know, tornado in my head where I'm seeing everything from every different angle and coming to no conclusions and make taking no action. And what the what talking to somebody did for me was to help me to step out of that to actually you know look at it um externally and go, okay, so what can I do? And then you know, the action thinking about stuff, yeah, is is you know it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

I want to circle back a bit, but I kind of want to stay with the point that you were both making there, which is like, and it's interesting because you know you say in your son, try to get to that point where it's like, yeah, I will go and talk to somebody, and then the minute the pressure's off, oh, it's all fine. Um, and we've seen like you look at the statistics in the US, and that's maybe you know an interesting market right now, but but when you see the difference in demographic, like um I think it's around 39%, 40% of men who are struggling with mental illness will receive treatment will go and seek treatment, whereas 60 to 66% of women will go and seek treatment. So we are a lot more reticent to come forward. And look, I know, and I'm gonna put this to you, Chris. I mean, there's two, I've got there's two words or there's two sayings which my least favourite in the the the English language. One is man up, which my my wife says says to me sometimes. Uh, but the second one is I'm fine. And I know in the history of my wife saying it over the last sort of last 18 years, it's never meant what it's supposed to mean. But the same is true of men, isn't it? That we'll say I'm fine. And I kind of wanted to come see you, Chris, like either from a personal experience or just you know, from talking to the community, and like what does that actually look like? I mean, because we will say I'm fine, we will bottle up, we won't share, but what does that look like in real terms? I mean, what's going on behind the I'm fine?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Um, yeah, sorry. Um no, I say it all the time, I'm fine. My wife comes home, you're right, yeah, I'm fine. And I'm not, yeah, you know, I haven't been fine for a very long time, and I know that, which is partly how I started doing what I've been doing. I mean, I said to you before about I did a podcast with my friend Kieran, and it took me six months to do it. But like when I did it, it then I had a friend from home who messaged me. He's realised that he needed help and he's got help, and he's a hell of a lot better than what he used to be. And for me, that was great because I've done something that I was very nervous about doing. You know, I pretended I was fine for years. You know, we were I've been through many things. I don't need to go into everything I suffered a lot more than what I actually realised because I didn't address it. And then every time my wife says, Are you fine? I mean, I'm fine. And I've always been fine, but I'm not fine. I always say I'm fine because I think it comes from our fathers, a lot of us, because my dad was a tough man, you know. He he was he worked from 16 and he he never really showed even now, he doesn't show his emotions very much because he's a man, you know, and and I think that's what we've all grown up with this thing of being a man, you don't want to say I'm not okay because you then feel weak, and you kind of I think a lot of guys just mask the fact they're fine when they're not fine. So um I've lost my words now.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

So we're no, I mean it's but it's powerful. I mean it's one of the reasons why I started mental in the first place. Was actually I didn't even know about my own mental health or what was actually happening in there. I saw my dad, you know, and he was again, he's like you, he was like he was a working class man, strong, uh resilient. Uh never cries, never cries twice. I've seen him cry twice for weeks, struggling with depression later in life, couldn't talk to anyone around him, drank himself to death in three months, you know, and he couldn't, and like I had a challenging childhood, but we had an okay adult relationship and he couldn't open up. And so it's that, you know, there's a generational thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

And I think my dad does now, though, because he's older.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

That's great.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

I mean, I I said to my dad, I said, I never realized I never really understood you until I had my son. Yeah. When I had my son, I then realized that okay, my dad probably wasn't as tough on me as he just cared about me. But as a kid, I always thought he was just tough on me. He wasn't tough on me, he just wanted me to be a better man, I suppose. And then I've always been a very emotional person. I wear my heart on my sleeve, I cry at TV, I cry at everything, and I'm not ashamed to do that because that's who I am. Yeah, and I I like to think sometimes that things I do, and when I I, you know, not so much bleed my heart out, but when I'm very open about my own problems, like you say, you know, I'm on antidepressants, I've been on them for a long time. I'm not depressed, I just don't deal with life, I don't deal with situations, and I'm okay with that. But if everything I can do can then help somebody else, even if it's just one person, it's worth me doing that because the whole I'm fine, we all say it, you know. And I think there's a thing where you can, there's a there's a some sort of font where it says I'm fine. If you flip it over, it says something else. I can't remember what it says. I'm not gonna try that one just in case uh there's a there's a way of writing it, like when they do the open and then they're doing it and it gets to closed. You can do I'm fine, and if you flip it over and it says something else, so it's it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Well, very good question, and actually, I was I was I was on uh uh radio yesterday with Alan Farmer talking about this as well. Um, Alina's uh message to say men probably, and but this is interesting, show signs of stress and depression differently to women. Um now she's asking as a partner how can we identify signs of distress and help them seek support? But there is a diff there there are some kind of curious, not curious, but there are differences in how particularly stress and depression in men displays and comes to the fore. And it's it it's more it can be more around anger and irritability, it's not necessarily just sadness. What do you? I mean, Chris, I want to get your thoughts on that, and also how I'm angry man. I'm a very angry man, um, as we all are, but um yeah, no, literally, and and when you're having that conversation with partners, and I want to come to you after Chris as well, but how can we have that conversation?

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Yeah, I think look, I mean, there's obviously a massive difference between clinical depression and anxiety and and what we colloquially call you know depression and anxiety, and you know, those sort of low moods, or um so so certainly, you know, I'm in no position to to deal with anything clinical um from the more colloquial uh side of it. I mean, what I tend to see, you know, from a personal perspective, as much as I see, you know, um guys that I talk to is that I become um introspective, I I draw away from everything. Um I you know I feel like you know, even as a as a coach and all the kind of you know courses and whatever that I've done and stuff, you know, I still struggle with that sense of, well, I should be able to deal with this by myself. And you know, I think for some reason, whether it is, you know, a generational thing, uh, or whether it's just a you know biological thing, I think we do feel a very strong sense of, well, if I can't, like what does it say about me if I if I can't? And I think there's a really uh a really you know that that gets to the real core of men, and I think that stops a lot of men from from um from opening up. So in terms of having the conversation, I think, as I say, big differences between those clinical and colloquial, but from from a personal perspective, uh it is it is always better to talk, right? I I hold on to things and then when I eventually talk to my wife about it, I feel so much better. I mean it's it's it's insane. I think the way to go about it is to accept that none of us know the answers to everything, right? It would be ridiculous. We would, you know, even if you one of the ways of my wife is right about everything. I'm not saying women, I'm saying men don't know the answers to everything. Um I think it is you your partner can see that something is wrong. Yeah, you are not fooling anybody. No, so women are very intuitive. I mean, the sooner you s you accept that, what you're doing is Having a negative, you're not only negatively impacting yourself, you're now starting to negatively impact the diet the the relationship dynamic within your family, whether that's with your wife or your kids or whoever. So accepting that, right? And not going looking for solutions. That's the thing. I think sometimes the communication is is a struggle for men and women because you know, we want to help, you know, as human beings, generally speaking, we want to help people who are struggling. Sometimes people who are struggling just need to talk. Yeah. And I think it's it's just, you know, from a partner's perspective, being, okay, I'm I'm just going to listen. And from the you know, from the person who's struggling's perspective, it's like at what level do I feel comfortable at? And I'm just gonna go there and just say, look, maybe things, you know, maybe you've noticed I'm not feeling great. I don't need a solution, I just need to let you know what's going on because I care. I think flip side of that.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

I mean when women are struggling, or when you're you know, your friends or community, your your family, or we even your self-mates are like, how does that show up? I was just interested in the differences as well.

SPEAKER_05 23:23

I think uh there's always that that um difficulty of over-generalizing because it is really down to your nature and your personality. Yes, I am a woman, and I've been known to be an oversharer. Which is brilliant for podcasts. You know. Um, but then I also equally have friends, um, one or two members of my own family who hold it all in. Because again, as a woman, especially if you are a mother, you feel inclined to keep things together, to show that's you know, to be stoic, to to be composed. And uh I I think that it does run parallel with sometimes um as a partner, as a, you know, as a as a father, you also feel that need to, well, I've just I've just got to put a strong front, I've just not gotta let this get to me. So there's actually a lot of similarities. The difference perhaps is with community. So, Chris, with what you have built and what you've tried to create in the way of a space and a community, that's it's you find that easier amongst women. So they're always gonna have a community within, you know, um, whether whether it's amongst mothers, amongst old childhood friends, uh, with with like talking to their mums, talking to their sisters, that community is far more accessible in in female spheres and circles than it is with men. And I feel that that is probably what is challenging. And when you are in a marriage or a partnership or in a relationship, there is that time lapse and you don't know how much time it will take you to be prepared enough to come across and say, I don't, I'm not looking for a solution. I just care enough and don't want this to be misconstrued or misread. And I just wanted to put it out there. And again, it's how long does it take for that person to open up and say that? Because that could have shortened if you were able to speak in in a community setting with somebody else. And I think that's the difference.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

I I think it's powerful. I know I want to launch the poll, but not just yet. I want to come back to you, Chris, as well. Because I think that's really, really important. And I think we you almost touched on it, I think, uh, you know, earlier in the conversation as well. Like because so many of us here are expats, you know, we kind of we come here for work, yeah. Uh, and uh almost like our first priority is to make that work because without that, yeah, you know, we can't stay and we can't pay for the school fees and the rents and all that kind of thing. So that means that community, not only are we left that kind of safe space with our childhood friends and our family and that kind of thing, so then our relationships get put in this pressure cooker of, you know, it's just us, but it's really, really important to try and get that sense of community. I mean, I've seen all the longevity studies and purpose and community always come through as the two things that help people live longer. And it's difficult as an expat because your first priority has got to be keep the job, pay the bills.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

Yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I mean, I think it's it's more I I mean, I partly why I built the group is because I came here as a stay-at-home father, I was bored, I was lonely. Every mother, every parent and toddler group I went to was full of mums, which you know was great. But like, I'm the only dad, and like, oh, where's your wife? She's at work. Oh, okay. And when I came here like 14 years ago, there wasn't as many stay-at-home dads as what there is now. And it's like now there is dads group, there is, you know, dads do meetups. We have some guys in the group that stay-at-home dads, they meet up together, but it's like having that role reversal, it was very difficult. My wife went off to work, she's got the career, she does wonderfully, and I was stuck at home with a kid. You know, I walk into a mother and baby, and it's like, hi, and like, who's this weirdo? You know, and it's like I got over that myself, and I just thought, you know, I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for my kid to be sociable with other kids, and I kind of got over that, and then you know, I kind of met a few other parents, I met a few other dads that were staying at home, and it was great. And I was like, this is brilliant. So, like, why can't we get more people doing this? And then it kind of comes, then obviously my kids have grown up, they've gone off to school. But I I often see people on the group like, I'm a stay-at-home dad, any other dads hanging around. And there's quite a few, they think they've set up a WhatsApp group now, and we have you know, we have the British dads, but then we've got so many different things, so many different things. I mean, there's even WhatsApp groups I didn't even know about, and and for me, it's great because that's what the whole point I did it was for is to build this community, and then I encourage anyone to do it, you know. I think if people want to be, oh, can I do this? Go for it. You know, I don't want to be involved with it. I mean, there's a guy set up, but he set up the golf society. I don't like golf. He does. He went off and set it up, and it's it's massive now, and there's so many guys that do it, but it's about that belonging. And I encourage anybody to go out and build a community for your no, it doesn't matter your nationality, but your group of people. Like if you all like sports, if you all like paddled, if you all like tennis or anything, just encourage anyone to just create something. If you don't have it, build it.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Because we keep saying as well, like loneliness is genuinely bad, not only for your mental health, but your physical health as well. Yeah, I think what was it? The US Surgeon General said it's the equivalent of smoking 14 cigarettes a day. So it genuinely is it they've they've classed it as a public health concern in the US. Um, again, interesting market. Um you are part of our community, so it's time to bring you in as well. So I'm gonna we're gonna launch the first poll. Um, and we're just gonna get a sense of what you're experiencing out there. Um, so the first poll right now, the questions are what are you what's the biggest pressure point right now for men? Um, is it work, pressure and performance, money worries and responsibilities, sleep and exhaustion, relationships and family tension, health, fitness changes, feeling isolated, as we were just saying, um, or lacking close friends. So please vote. And as usual, uh, there isn't a G, uh, which is all of the above. Um, and I hope you know you're there. But uh, I mean, out of those, what do you kind of see though is is is the thing like you know, money, worries, and responsibilities. And when we see, you know, we saw that in the pool survey, um, sleep and exhaustion, I think, is is is going to be a big one for us. But when you're seeing there, what are those kind of things that the guys are really, really struggling with right now as well?

SPEAKER_01 29:50

I think it's job security. I mean, obviously with what's been going on in the past few months, you know, we've all been. I had a few days where I'm like, do I need to leave? Do I need to stay? And it's a lot of people, I mean, I've got a lot of friends that are leaving this year, you know, I've got people that have been here as long as I've been here and they're leaving after all these years because they don't feel safe here anymore. And it's that job security the job security, job security, because it's not just a job, you know, like my wife's her job, but her job pays for our accommodation, it pays for her visa. Yeah, you know, it's it's a knock-on effect. And if my wife leaves the company, the kids have to leave the school they've been at for the past 12 years, which is not okay. And it's that having that fear of it's not like in the UK, it's you lose your job, you go for another job. Yeah, whereas here you lose your job, you lose everything.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

And that was the pressure point, and we saw that in the pool survey as well, wasn't it? That actually when you looked at people felt at home here, um, as we do, because it's like the one, five, fifteen forever. Uh, people felt physically safe and emotionally safe. Yeah, but when it came to job security and when it came to financial worries, that was the thing where they were sticking. So those two things are true at the same time. Like we know, and actually, I think it's a stressor, particularly for men. I mean, I've been fired from more than one job. And every time we go through that, it's it's like it's not actually me that I'm worried for, it's my daughter and her lifestyle here in this amazing country, you know. And take it is she can we afford the school fees? Do we have to take her out of school? You know, and I it's my responsibility to maintain her standard of life rather than my responsibility to my own mental health. And you feel like you're letting people down. I'm just gonna bring the results in, just so we see. Yeah, and here we are. Yeah, I mean, that really gels. Uh, biggest answer money worries and responsibilities. Uh, and then we've kind of got a bit of an arm wrestle between relationships and family tension, which I think is always connected, and also then work pressure and performance. So those three things right now, and I suppose that does link back to the reality of um 90% of us are here purely because of we've got a job here. Um, so that that is a that is a tension. Um, where do we go from here? I'm gonna I think we should start kind of looking at what can men do. I mean, Chris, I'll come to you. Yeah, you know, if a guy is struggling, I mean, when you were struggling, or you know, what are the first things that show up? How can we actually kind of almost self-diagnose that something's not quite right and start having that conversation with ourselves? Because I think that's almost like the the most important place to start.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Yeah, I think it is, and certainly, you know, for for me, um, as I mentioned before, it is that you know, withdrawing, um, you know, and and you know, and I and we do it with the best intentions, we're trying to protect, you know, and that's we're trying to protect those around us, you know. It's just it doesn't work that way. Um, and so I think you know, the the the the introspection, then what tends to happen is that we spend a lot of time overthinking things, and that can impact our sleep. And as we all know, you know, sleep is a time when we recover from everything, like you know, so if that starts to get impacted, you just on a spiral downwards. And then what I generally tend to see with guys is this idea of as you mentioned before, irritability, anger, you know, uh silly things, yeah. Uh, and then and then obviously what happens with that is we feel ashamed because we've lost our temper with our kids, or we've, you know, um, I mean, for me, one of the big things was road rage. Um, you know, and and uh it got in this country. It got a bit but you know, one of the things, so you mentioned about stoic, so I'm a big believer in stoic philosophy, like how the Stoics actually, you know, um talk about living life. One of the things that is very strong in Stoic philosophy is that you know things that happen are amoral, they don't there isn't a good or a bad, things just happen. Our perception of them is what taints them with good, bad, or whatever, right? And that's the lens through which we see life. When you can start to accept that, you know, certainly for me with the row rage, one of the things that has helped a lot is when I start to feel that I'm you know, it's questioning has anything actually happened? You know, yes, I've been cut up, but has anything actually happened?

SPEAKER_03 34:20

No.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

So why then am I, you know, because it but again, you know, it's about brain um physiology. Yeah, you don't have control of that situation. No, no, no, because it's this flight or fight, um yeah, fight or flight response. And and then, but the minute that you do come online or have an awareness of what's that's when you have the choice, right? You don't have a choice as to whether or not your amygdala is going to fire, but as soon as you know that it's fired, you have a choice as to how you react. And so I think you know, for me, um, all of those things were happening. Uh, I thought I was protecting uh my family, and eventually uh my wife was like, you really need to, and she actually made an appointment and uh with our family medicine. Yeah, and and I was like, Oh, well, you know, yeah, you know, fight against it and and then go, and then you know, I mean, my my family medicine um doctor was British, you know, she was like, Look, if you take these pills and it helps, what's the problem with taking pills? Right, exactly. It could well be that your brain chemistry just isn't wired quite right, yeah, right. So if that were the something, you know, physical illness, you would do something about it. So what's the problem? And and for me, that was a really big turning point as well.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

It reminds me of an interesting lens. Um I want to get your thoughts. Remember, we had that conversation with Dr. Rita and you were talking about subtitles almost between partners, which is we think we're withdrawing, but then how that silence is received on the other side. And if we can actually remove that period of silence and withdrawal, we would get to a better place quicker.

SPEAKER_05 36:06

That's what I was just trying to do. Oh, sorry, go ahead, go, go. That was what I was also touching upon with the fact that that inability to kind of yeah, shorten that time frame from that opening up because women, I don't know. I again I seem so generalizing, but it's we we are we have really high levels of emotional intelligence. We I it's it's kind of like within our nature, we can pick up on things even before they happen. So you can read when someone is slightly different or off, and it could be completely undetectable by somebody else, but especially if there's that kind of partnership dynamic. Um, but then there's also that you they don't really want to impose, they don't want to kind of like, you know, infringe on your kind of time. But it's the longer you remain in that stage of withdrawal, the more it is then again misinterpreted as why don't you want to talk? You know, it's it's we we are supposed to have an open, you know, kind of like uh, you know, that ability to share and share a burden and share what's on your mind, and and that's how it kind of like affects, and I think the poll survey was talking about relationships because on the one hand, I can see the man or the male perspective rather questioning why I am not able to address this or resolve this. Just give me a bit of time, and I'm sure I can get to the bottom of it. And on the flip side of that, that time can take days, weeks, two weeks, or yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

And then I mean, this deals with a couple of uh observations that are coming in from the audience, and I'll keep them anonymous, but you know, what one uh one one question coming in going, you know, in your view, is men's mental health more about individual weakness or how society has trained men to disconnect from their emotions, which is one really good point. And then another uh audience members, you know, also asking, you know, here making this point just going, you know, women and mothers tend to share their social circles and clubs while men, we shy away from serious conversations, even with friends, because we feel like we're laying your our lives bare for somebody else. And I think sometimes is it it's almost like again, it's that I don't want to trouble you. I mean, I remember when we had um that great doctor from Mediclinic, whose name sorry. And that's really good when we were talking about men's mental health last time. It's like you you almost feel like you don't want to be a burden, and I think that's sometimes a barrier as well. But you know, Chris, I you know from from your perspective, what what was the thing that stopped you from coming forward? And then what was the thing that went, right? Okay, I'm gonna seek out.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

I think it's more judgment, yeah, because you feel I mean, uh that's what Chris was saying before. Like, I think uh for for a man, it's my job is to protect my family and be there for my family and be that man to protect them. And if I'm there going, oh yeah, I'm not very well, you know, it kind of shows weakness, which a lot of men don't like to show weakness. Like, I mean, I I talk to my friends, I've got friends of mine, I've got a very good friend of mine, you know, and he he talks to me every day and he's he tells me about all his problems and we chat about stuff and I try and help him. And you know, he sometimes I'm just like, Leave me alone, you know. He gets a bit too much, but he he he doesn't bleed his heart, but he comes to me all the time to talk about stuff, and I help him and I want to help him, but it's like I think a lot of guys don't have that circle, you know. I mean, I've been here a long time, I've got three friends, I've got friends that have been here for a long time, I've got friends that have left, and it's a very transitional place. So you have friends that you're great with, and then two weeks later, oh, we're leaving. It's okay, and you kind of lose that circle. But like when you've got somebody you can talk to, it's a great thing, you know. I'm lucky enough, I've I've got a big group, you know, a thousand people. I never feel I'm on my own. I know if I put something on there, there's always going to be somebody who's gonna help me. You know, if I struggle, if depending on what it is, I mean, I message Chris sometimes for things, I message my other friend for things because he has a different perspective of what Chris does. You know, I with these three guys that helped me do the all the men's time to help, but they're all different in their own little way. Like Chris is very calm, my other friend's very he's very excitable, you know. I talk to him about different problems, and then my other friend's a little bit different from Chris, and they all deal with it in a different way. And I think if you don't have the friends or people around you, it's it's a struggle because you you're kind of retracting to yourself. Like you said, it's men retract themselves. You know, I I I lucky enough I have a very wonderful partner, she knows me better than I know myself. She comes in, you're all right. Yep, no, you're not. Okay. But I I talk to my wife, eye music. I was saying to you before, like I I find if I put music on, it it kind of it lets her know my mood. Right. If I'm angry, I'll listen to rock music. Like this, I play this song too. You really do bow your heart, your sleeve. Oh, I do, mate, honestly. I literally bleed like emotions, but like if I'm angry, I'll put rock music on. Like if I'm feeling sad, I'll put on some songs that not so much make me upset, but make me remember things that make me upset because then I can get that out of my system. Right. It's kind of it's a very strange way to do it, but like I think it's beautiful because it's music music helps. It's just I think about road rage. Like, when I'm in my car, I put music on and I put very loud music on because then it for me it then blocks out all the things I don't want to deal with.

SPEAKER_02 41:25

Because so if you walk into Chris's house and he's playing Enya, you know you're floating around the kitchen, then he really does need help. But I think I mean, and this is something that came through yesterday when I was having our conversation, and you know, we were talking with Met Manny from Mentality. Obviously, you've got British Dads Do you buy, and actually, I'm just gonna give another shout out here. Um, Mohammed is also talking about another support group, um, anydashman.com. But again, that we're really, really busy, you know, it really, really busy, and then we throw everything else on whether or not it's you've got children, whether you're a new dad, which can actually be quite destabilizing because all of a sudden you're you might be removed from your community. Um, and you know, you you're just there with your new baby, but you're not seeing your friends every week and all that kind of thing. So that loneliness, and it's like it I mean, I've been here 18 years, and I still think Chat GPT is probably my best mate right now, you know. But the fact that community is so important, but it takes intention, and actually we need to work on this rather than just think it's gonna happen. Yes. Um, I want to come to you about that later.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Very much so, and I think you know, this is the thing. I mean when I when I actually one point I just want to kind of touch on um because we've used it a few times, is this idea of you know weakness and men thinking that you know, because they can't do something, they're in some way weak or incapable. And it's it's you know, you kind of want to shake some people sometimes because getting away from this idea that in because you can't do something, you're weak, is it's it's so frustrating because at some point in our life we have not been able to do everything we can now do, yeah, right? So what we were weak before, and now we're what strong? It's like you know, those two words are so I find so um frustrating in conversation. Very limiting, absolutely, that's really great way of putting it, and this idea that it's it's not weakness, you you know, if you're having a conversation, like for me with coaching, I don't need to talk to people, you know, they don't have to like tell me every last little thing that's ever happened to them, you know. I deal with the present and the future, that's what coaching does, right? Therapists generally deal with the past, right? But the only point we have in our lives at any point.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

I love that because I wanted to bring that into the conversation as well. And I guess it's that that, you know, again, this too shall pass. And there's a great book of which was like Confessions from a Psychotherapist Couch. And it basically says, you know, 99% of people in the planet either live yesterday or tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Both of which don't exist. Yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Or there is nothing you can do about that. There is literally nothing you can do. And what the future holds for you, you have absolute you have limited control. Yeah. Very, very limited control. And I think sometimes as human beings, we seem to think that you know we have so much more control over things than we actually do. But if we could just, you know, let go of the past or our worries about the future and just deal with what it's like in front of you. We would be so much happier.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Yeah. So so much happier. I'm just going to bring in a question from Elvis as well. Thank you for your question. Or should I say, oh, thank you very much. Sorry. I know you've probably heard that about a million times. Um I couldn't resist. Uh, but again, how do you overcome? And you said judgment. I mean, I've I've lived with shame all my life as a child abuse victim, but how do you overcome the fear of being judged for expressing your mental health issues? And I want to ask that to both of you because I remember it's like the first time you actually talk about it, you do, you're you're terrified because you think you're going to be judged. And almost every single time you're surprised and you know you you understand like people don't back off, you know, actually people will lean forward. So having the courage to come forward and talk um is is taking that again, you talk about incremental first steps. Yeah, but how do you overcome that? And I and I think that's a question to all three of you, actually.

SPEAKER_05 45:43

Yeah, but it's just because you know, when you were saying when you were talking, I just realized that that fear of being judged is because you've already judged yourself. So you're literally amplifying your own judging of yourself and then outsourcing it to other people claiming that, oh, it's them that are gonna be so. I think it all starts within, yeah, you know. Yeah, no, totally. It's like if you are that kind of person who, whether you've always had it, whether you've worked towards it, and you realize that I am not judging myself at all, then that fear completely disappears. I love that. Because it's you judging yourself.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

I remember that phrase as well. What is it? It's like, I'm not who I think I am, I'm not who you think I am, I'm who I think you think I am. And it's like, you know, we're imagining and we're making up stories. No idea. So Elvis, I would say, like, you've literally no idea. And actually, I've I I I it's never backfired on me where that that kind of honesty, because actually, most people are just genuinely decent. And also we see from all of the statistics, you know, we say you are not alone, you know, and all of us are struggling. But to come back, you know, yeah, again within the community, how do you see, you know, if we're gonna give advice to men, you know, how to overcome that stigma, how to overcome that. I mean, you talked about judgment, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Yeah, I mean, I think it's just opening that door. I mean, I have found a there's a guy in the UK who set up a thing called Are You OK, bro? Yeah, and I love it, I think it's amazing. Like, I often put it on the group, I just put the picture on, Are you okay, bro? Just message your friend. Yeah, you know, I mean I said to you before about music, like there's a song called Call Me Mate. Yeah, and if you haven't listened to it, listen to it because it kind of resonated with me an awful lot because just call me. You know, I I mean my my my my instant my my WhatsApp profile picture said I'd rather listen to your story than attend your funeral. Yeah, and that resonated with me massively because over the years I've lost I've lost probably four friends from suicide, and we've lost quite a few guys on the group through suicide, and it's horrendous because the statistics, you know, this this like people don't see a way out, so they see that suicide is the only option, but it's like I think once you've got to you've got to take that step. Yeah, you know, I took the step a long time ago, and then I did the podcast with Kieran, it blew up for me, it was massive. And seeing what I can do myself helps other people, it's having that whole thing, but just just message a friend. I mean, I get messages all.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

It's like worldwide, 80% of suicides are men. So scary. Uh I don't know if you remember, there was a great speech by Paddy Pimler, who's a UFC fighter. You know, he just won his second world title um hours after finding out that one of his friends had obviously tragically taken the decision to end his life. And he was like, again, it's like always, whether it's as dramatic as that or if it's just you are struggling, it's that I would rather you come forward and tell me as your friend, as your partner, as your brother, as your you know, your colleague, than suffer in silence. Um, so so that's there. Um, I want to bring the second poll in because we've actually only got about 10 minutes left, and as usual, these conversations fly by. But I want to bring the second poll in because uh, you know, we want to focus on what can potentially help as well. So the the questions are, and I want you to lean in again, over the next 30 days, what do you think would help you the most? Um, better sleep and energy. Oh my god, that would be good. Uh, a realistic fitness routine, and actually, we should get kind of also spend some time talking about the physical and the mental because obviously they're not two different things, uh, less stress and more calm, and you rather than rock music. Uh, a way to talk without feeling judged, which I think really just connects to what we were just talking about, and stronger friendships and connection, you know, community that we were being about. So please vote. Uh, I mean, a few things there. Uh, while the guys are voting out there, while the audience is voting out there, um, we've talked about stronger friendships and connection. Uh oh, support with money, pressure, and planning. I forgot one. Well, but we know that we've we've so we've talked about that already, and we've also talked about stronger friendships. Though one of our one of our listeners earlier was talking about financial worries as well. And are there, I mean, we're not going to give financial advice on this podcast, but are there ways that we can actually deal with that kind of worry as opposed to and again, I think is it's like stop avoiding and maybe lean in. It's the same as is it the same principle as the mental health conversation generally, which is like don't withdraw, but actually try and have the courage to step forward. Um but I want to come like better sleep and energy, and we talked about it before, but but a realistic fitness routine that sticks as well. Because uh one of the questions that came in from an audience member earlier as well was like, You think you know, we're seeing a rise in certain types of physical conditions, and is this a result of men pushing things down? Does it actually translate into physical health ailments? We see this every time we sit down with GPs, that there is this connection between mental and physical. And when you're coaching people, Chris, you know, um, and you're a you're a trim guy, you're up fair than me, and you're also close to 16, you look younger than me, which annoys me. Um, but yeah, that that just let's touch upon that as you know, the the impact that actual physical health and mental health and how they can go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_00 50:59

I mean, the you know, the mind-body connection is is well researched and well studied, and you know, is is not a conspiracy theory or or anything like that. What how your body deals with stress impacts your physical being. Um you know, in terms of weight gain, um, you know, it can be quite dramatic weight loss, you know, um disease, um, you know, there's a lot of link between stress, you know, which creates inflammation, and inflammation creates most diseases that um we find. So, you know, and chronic stress is something that people are are dealing with a lot more these days. Yeah. And so I think um, look, I mean, physical health, physical activity, yeah, uh is massively important in terms of mental health because you know, maybe not right now, you know, the way the weather's going, but you know, getting outside, getting some sunshine, you know, being in as much nature as you can is uh has massive benefits to and doing again, it's incremental, right? It's being consistent and being patient. So when you're consistent, right, and you need to be patient because it'll take longer than you think it will. And then you have to be compassionate with yourself. And these are the three key words for my business. You have to be compassionate with yourself because you're gonna mess it up, and then you're gonna get back to it.

SPEAKER_04 52:27

Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

But but physical activity, and I, you know, when I was PTing, used to go to so many parties, and people would say, Oh, I should go to the gym. And I'm like, why? Like, why should you go to the gym? I choose to go to the gym because I love that environment, like I love being in gyms, I don't talk to anybody, but I love being there. If you don't, you know, I always think about stress as being a bucket that we all carry around. And things add to that bucket that create more stress, and things take out of that bucket, which the things you do to try and relieve some of that stress should be that. If you're going to the gym and punishing yourself in some way because you don't really enjoy it, but you think you should do it, you're not taking out of your bucket, you're adding to it. Yes. So I think finding something that you enjoy doing, whether it's the community, you know, uh community events. I mean, there are lots of men's groups popping up that are based around physical fitness. Whether it's, you know, you go to classes and you actually start to make some connections within the classes, you know, whatever it might be, find something you enjoy doing that makes you feel better, that you come out of and actually, you know, you might have a smile on your face, or it's just stopped you from worrying for you know that hour or 45 minutes, and do that, but do it consistently, be patient with it and be compassionate with yourself.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

We had Dr. Mac Mood on, didn't we? Uh literally the last podcast as well, which is all the podcast before, which was he was talking again um from Valence Clinic about, you know, if you you know if you try and do too much too quickly, yeah, uh, and you're you are like, oh, I'm gonna go and run a marathon and you hate, you know, it's just gonna, it's gonna go, it's gonna stop, it's not sustainable. And it's like, how do you build yourself a kind of sustainable roadmap? Um, I'm gonna bring in one last point because Anthony Beshidingo, you know, he's talking about knowing how to identify it. And we've had podcasts with Johannes talking about health literacy, and I think mental health literacy is a thing, particularly for men, because they don't really know what the actual signs they're supposed to be looking for. So as we bring this conversation kind of to a close, we've got four minutes left. Um, some of those warning signs, or how can men start having that conversation again with themselves, Chris?

SPEAKER_01 54:46

I think it's yeah, you start. I mean, I you start to notice you withdraw yourself sometimes, you lose interest in things that you used to enjoy. I love watching movies, and then when I I don't want to watch anything, I I kind of I know there's something wrong with me. I know that I'm not and I've done it before. I I I retract myself into myself, yeah. I'll switch my phone off, I'll ignore my friends, I don't bother messaging people, and I go very quiet. Yeah, and I know I do that, and my wife, you know, she always spots it, but like I know within myself I'm not okay, so I need to do something. I mean, when you messaged me a few weeks ago and say, Do you want to do this? I was like, nope, don't want to do that, don't want to go out of the house, don't want to stay at home. Yeah, I I do it to protect myself because I don't want to, but I come and do these things because I know that the benefit for myself is great, yeah. Because I'm you know, I'm at the house, I'm meeting what new wonderful people and I'm talking, which helps me a lot. So I think trying to find, like Chris said before, finding something that you enjoy. I mean, there's loads of groups, there's a guy called Lee, he set up um Man of the Mile. Yeah, it's absolutely amazing, you know. What he loves it. It started off as just a walk every week, so it's now turning into this paddle thing, and he he's doing wonderful things, but it's a great release for people because I don't think a lot of people go and play paddle because they want to play paddle, they go to play paddle because they meet people, yeah. And you know, like me and Chris have said, like we do our breakfasts, there's not just the same people there. We don't all come for one reason, we're all from different walks of life. You know, it's like you do this, I do that, and we've got CEO, we've got people from all scales, and and that's the thing with a community, you have a lot of different people from different backgrounds that have different experiences, and it's great because you know, you meet people and you're like, Oh wow, I didn't know you did that. And you know, I've I've met so many wonderful people over the past 14 years through my group, yeah, and it's great because you know, I also love to sit, I love to sit in the room and just watch 30 or 40 guys and they're all just talking. Yeah, I sit down, I'm like, I did this. Yeah, I built this time for me and my friend go through.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

And I'm glad you can actually own that. I love it as well.

SPEAKER_01 56:38

Yeah, I mean, I don't like taking praise, I I like to shy away from the cameras. I I'm not one person that stands up and goes, you know, I'm Chris, I hate it, you know, I don't like the attention. But to sit back and look at something that I've built, and yeah, you know, it's it's come about and everything's kind of fallen into place, and people are sitting talking, and you know, we've had people get jobs from breakfast, you know, just from coming out for a breakfast. Yeah, got a new job, you know, or they've got a new business, or they've got this, and you know, everyone meets everyone. And it's I mean, Chris has been to many breakfasts, you but yourself have been to a few. But to see these people connecting is just amazing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

So I'm gonna say grab the talking stick back for a second there, Chris. Uh Faddy, just to let you know, yes, this recording will be made available. We always turn this into a podcast, which is on Apple, Spotify, Amazon Music. Please go, please dial in, please give us a five-star rating. Thank you very much. Uh, and it's also on the YouTube channels as well. And we've got a really big audience for it on YouTube as well. So you will be able to catch up. There has been a lot of insight. And I'm gonna kind of come back and let's let's just wrap up. Um, like for you, Mesa, what's been your takeaway from this past hour of conversation?

SPEAKER_05 57:41

Uh, for me, I feel that it's a very um it's it's interesting how there are parallels because a lot of the times people will always say it's different for women than it is for men. And I do feel that there are a lot of parallels. Um, I think a lot of it is really down to that um that willingness to actually do something about it when you are aware of how it impacts people around you. And as females, I think we get to that quicker because we've usually got so many codependents. But even if you weren't, you know, like you didn't have kids, um, you you kind of sense that because we do have more of a, you know, like an ongoing um uh dialogue that takes place on the daily with a lot of people. Um, but I think it's I actually very, very heartwarming to know that there are things that are actually happening on the ground and that there is because I I've got brothers, I've got sons, um, and and I I hate this idea of anyone having to live or go through something and feeling that they're on their own and they can't share it because it's not the right thing to do. That to me is is very tragic. Yeah, and it's really, really encouraging and very heartwarming to know that you know there are communities and there are platforms, and I just I just want it to multiply and cascade throughout. And it will, and it will.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

Chris, no pressure, but my drop moment to you on this one. Um, I think one thing that came through there as well, and it's interesting because I think sometimes our self-narrative is a really big thing, and men I think have a problem with compassion towards themselves, and I think you were saying that. So, if you were to make a last observation, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 59:32

I would say when you do anything to make yourself feel better, that obviously doesn't harm other people. Celebrate. Men don't celebrate, we we do the things, you know, we take a step, and if it doesn't work, what we do is focus on the failure, not on the celebration of actually taking the courage and having the courage to take the step. Absolutely celebrate that yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

Uh that's the mic drop moment. Um, thank you so much for joining us on Connect for Health today. This has been a really important conversation. Uh, from my perspective as well, it's like, you know, as a guy that lived with shame for most of his life, just um I just let you know, you are not alone. And you know, so many guys suffer in silence and think it's just them. It's not, it's everybody. We're all struggling. So if you are struggling, please reach out, you know, join a community like Chris's or any of the communities we've talked about today, but don't struggle in silence. You know, we're together, we all thrive, and I think that's just the the message I want to leave you with. Um, and also cut yourself some slack, you know, uh be kind to yourself. So from uh Connect for Health, thank you very much for joining us today, and uh, we'll see you next time. Oh, quick one before you go. After this is finished, we you will be asked for feedback. Please give it to us because it it's a gift and it helps us improve these conversations as always. And then, yeah, go and check out the podcast, go and check out all YouTube and subscribe. Thank you very much, and we'll see you next month.